Class-My first question is what was your first impression on why he was wearing a veil and why it affected the people, do you think it ties back to the idea that the people might not have been able to read his emotions and that is why they no longer really had trust for him?
I think that the veil symbolized the "Uncanny" strongly as we learned today in class. We see something as common as a veil everyday, yet the veil's ominous effect proves to be 'unfamiliar.' Similar to the shadows that cloaked the faces of the characters that we saw today in the slide show.
Emily-I think that the veil symbolized the minister's sins. It's almost as though it was hiding his bad actions, and by doing this he almost felt better about himself. When he was responding to Elizabeth about why he had to wear the veil and when he could take it off his response was, "There is an hour to come, when all of us chall cast aside our veils". I thought this was symbolizing the taking away of the "mask" covering his sins.
Kylie- for most of the story, i thought that he was trying to prove a point, or use the veil to help with his sermon. But since he never took the veil off, i guess it meant more to him.
@Kylie My first impression was that he was wearing the black veil because he was in mourning. But then it became clearer later in the text (top of page 5) that he probably committed some kind of sin. I think it affected the people because like Silvana said, his eyes were covered and it made people scared because they couldn't see his emotions or what he was thinking. I think it goes back to things that are familiar and unfamiliar. The ministers actions are familiar to the reader, but the black veil is unfamiliar and I think that is why the people didnt really have trust in him anymore.
Kylie - I think that my first impression was that it was a strange thing to do, especially since he seemed to be very adamant on the idea that he couldn't remove it, not just because he didn't want to, but because it was literally impossible. I think that it affected the people because they were frightened of the mystery that the veil presented for them, not because the minister had become horrifically frightening. I think it also had to do with his emotions, but more so that they couldn't understand his motives behind the veil in the first place.
I also would like to get your opinon on this. When I was reading this, my first impression was that the only reason everyone lost trust, although he still acted and said things the same, I think that their trust wasn't holding strong. It ties back to the uncanny thing because although they did know him, the idea that they couldn't back up their interpretations of his words with his facial expressions, really scared me. Do you think the fact that the lost trust was because of the uncanny of the situation?
Emily: I think it symbolized pure separation and how something so simple can change so much. He detached himself from the people and the world and it caused great unrest and confusion as everyone felt so disturbed by it.
Kylie: I was pretty lost on why he was wearing the veil; I assumed he was going to make a point about how everyone reacted. I may have really missed the mark on this because I saw people react to him as people may have reacted to a woman showing her knees way back when. It was different, unusual, and unaccepted which is why they were so scared. I thought they were so flabbergasted not necessarily because it hid his emotion but because he looked different.
Kylie, I first thought something had happened to his face in which he was trying to conceal, for he was shy and insecure by it, afraid of the judgment that the townspeople would assert. Possibly the author did mean this, just with sins? As in he used the veil to hide his sins that he was afraid of others seeing him?
Kylie- I agree with what you said about the black veil symbolized the ministers sins. I also think that it goes beyond that though, and represents everyones sins. On the very last page, it says "I look around me, and, lo! on every visage a Black Veil". I think that means that the minister recognized his sins and tried to receive forgiveness for what he had done by wearing the veil, and by the quote above I think it was saying that everyone commits sin, but he was the only one who actually recognized it.
Hi. So I have a question about the ending of this story. On page 5, paragraph 5, there is a sentence that states, "There was the nurse, no hired handmaiden of death, but one whose calm affection had endured thus long in secrecy, in solitude, amid the chill of age, and would not perish, even at the dying hour. Who, but Elizabeth!" So, what exactly does this mean? I interpreted it as the Minister having an affair with a nurse, but I have a feeling I am wrong.
@Kylie I do believe that the situation of the veil's influence ties back to the Uncanny. Due to the shade of the veil, I was thinking, when I read, that the minister uses it in order to hide himself in shame. As we said before, perhaps he had committed some un-speakable deed, but I also think that, because of his rank in society, he is unable to expose himself to shame.
@DavidE: i think that it is familiar and unfamiliar because it is a normal garment for a woman to wear to a funeral or other sad occasions but is odd for a man to wear.
Aliisa-In the way you worded this it made me think that maybe he was using the veil as covering up his imperfections. I think that this could be applied to today as well. When it comes to school and grades and stuff, I think people do try and cover up the things that they are afraid others will judge them on. Therefore the minister did not want to show his eyes because he didn't want to lose the respect others had for him as a minister.
Taylor - It says on the bottom of page three that they were set to be wed, and so she was his nurse because she was the only one of society who hadn't cast him away completely, so she became his caretaker.
David- I associated the veil with the drapery in the House of Usher. I felt like the veil masked the beholder just like the drapery of the windows in the house hid the owner.
@David Well the veil was familiar because like it said on the middle of page 2, the veil is a simple thing that a woman might wear on her bonnet, but it becomes unfamiliar when the minister puts on the veil because he is a powerful figure and its so different from the way that people see him. Like Connor said its the fear of the unknown that is unfamiliar
Taylor - The nurse doesn't have anything specifically to do with the minister. That paragraph begins talking about the other people in the tomb. When the author describes the nurse he gives her character by saying that her calm affection stayed even after she had died. Perhaps it's a way of saying that as the minister's death comes, his veil and what it means will stay with him, too.
Alexa-I honestly didn't think much about that quote on teh back of the page. It does have a large importance, I think that maybe if everyone was okay with their wrongs, they wouldn't need this veil and the minister may have been okay with excepting his wrongs without having to hide them. Does that make sense?
Taylor- I think that it means that Elizabeth was the only person who understood what the pastor was trying to do. When everyone else shuns him, Elizabeth loved him for who he was, which is exactly what he wanted.
@Taylor: That is interesting and I did not think of that when I was reading. You raise a good point that perhaps one might be able to connect that symbols that inter-mingle with different Gothism pieces of literature.
I have a question...one question that Mrs. Lee told us to annotate about is when does something become its opposite. So I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on that?
Class- I also had another thought. On page , paragraph 1, it described the minister's sermon as, "he strove to win his people heavenward by mild, persuasive influences, rather than to drive them thither by the thunders of the Word." I feel like this description portrays the veil's effect on him because he is reserved when he wears it, but if he took it off, his sermons might reach more people. Any thoughts?
Kylie, I think the author may have had this theme in mind. That in this Puritan society, anything different is evil, and he tried to cover up imperfections to avoid judgment? Such thing happens today and Romanticism tries to go against this. Therefore he is the eccentric oddity, that baffles everyone.
@Kylie Yes that makes sense. I agree. I think the community should have been more accepting of the minister instead of shunning him, which would have led to acceptance of wrongs and sins
Class - on page five, second paragraph in the middle, it says "In truth, his own antipathy to the veil was known to be so great, that he never willingly passed before a mirror, nor stooped to drink at a still fountain, lest, in its peaceful bosom, he should be affrighted by himself." With all this talk about what the veil symbolizes, do you think he felt shame or fear? How does it tie into the community's reaction?
Did the minister want them to take the veil off? When they tried to take it off, he cried "Never!... On Earth, never!". I thought he just wanted his face covered on earth, but the veil lifted symbolically when he went to heaven.
Alexa-when they were refering to the opposite I think it had to go witht the idea that yes the people were very afraid of the veil, they still all sort of wanted to find the reasoning of it. Sort of like what Connor was saying in the center that this text reflected on the idea of using the example: You hear something in the basement, it somewhat creeps you out, yet you still go downstairs to find out what it might have been.
@Alexa: I think the veil becomes its own opposite. originally the veil is used to make someone (typically a woman) to be less conspicuous and fit in with the scenery so to speak. And when the minister wears it, he becomes the vocal point of all the conversations in the town.
Alexa-I think that something becomes its opposite when the two become contradictory ideas. Hawthorne uses opposites frequently throughout the text to go along with the uncanny. For example, a minister with a black veil.
Aliisa- I think the lesson to learn from this story is, people should not cover their secrets or emotions with a veil. Even if you constantly hide from others, then you will eventually be left out, and you will lead a lonely life.
What do you think the veil symbolized, and why?
ReplyDeleteClass-My first question is what was your first impression on why he was wearing a veil and why it affected the people, do you think it ties back to the idea that the people might not have been able to read his emotions and that is why they no longer really had trust for him?
ReplyDeleteI think that the veil symbolized the "Uncanny" strongly as we learned today in class. We see something as common as a veil everyday, yet the veil's ominous effect proves to be 'unfamiliar.' Similar to the shadows that cloaked the faces of the characters that we saw today in the slide show.
ReplyDeleteEmily M: i think that the veil symbolized the evil/sin both in the minister's life and in the lives of those around him and throughout humanity.
ReplyDeleteEmily-I think that the veil symbolized the minister's sins. It's almost as though it was hiding his bad actions, and by doing this he almost felt better about himself. When he was responding to Elizabeth about why he had to wear the veil and when he could take it off his response was, "There is an hour to come, when all of us chall cast aside our veils". I thought this was symbolizing the taking away of the "mask" covering his sins.
ReplyDeleteKylie- for most of the story, i thought that he was trying to prove a point, or use the veil to help with his sermon. But since he never took the veil off, i guess it meant more to him.
ReplyDelete@Kylie
ReplyDeleteMy first impression was that he was wearing the black veil because he was in mourning. But then it became clearer later in the text (top of page 5) that he probably committed some kind of sin. I think it affected the people because like Silvana said, his eyes were covered and it made people scared because they couldn't see his emotions or what he was thinking. I think it goes back to things that are familiar and unfamiliar. The ministers actions are familiar to the reader, but the black veil is unfamiliar and I think that is why the people didnt really have trust in him anymore.
Kylie - I think that my first impression was that it was a strange thing to do, especially since he seemed to be very adamant on the idea that he couldn't remove it, not just because he didn't want to, but because it was literally impossible. I think that it affected the people because they were frightened of the mystery that the veil presented for them, not because the minister had become horrifically frightening. I think it also had to do with his emotions, but more so that they couldn't understand his motives behind the veil in the first place.
ReplyDelete@Alexa
ReplyDeleteIn what ways do you think that the veil is familiar and unfamiliar?
Emily-I think the black veil represented his sins and wrongdoings and the veil acted like a shield or mask from further darkness.
ReplyDeleteI also would like to get your opinon on this. When I was reading this, my first impression was that the only reason everyone lost trust, although he still acted and said things the same, I think that their trust wasn't holding strong. It ties back to the uncanny thing because although they did know him, the idea that they couldn't back up their interpretations of his words with his facial expressions, really scared me. Do you think the fact that the lost trust was because of the uncanny of the situation?
ReplyDeleteEmily: I think it symbolized pure separation and how something so simple can change so much. He detached himself from the people and the world and it caused great unrest and confusion as everyone felt so disturbed by it.
ReplyDeleteKylie: I was pretty lost on why he was wearing the veil; I assumed he was going to make a point about how everyone reacted. I may have really missed the mark on this because I saw people react to him as people may have reacted to a woman showing her knees way back when. It was different, unusual, and unaccepted which is why they were so scared. I thought they were so flabbergasted not necessarily because it hid his emotion but because he looked different.
Kylie, I first thought something had happened to his face in which he was trying to conceal, for he was shy and insecure by it, afraid of the judgment that the townspeople would assert. Possibly the author did mean this, just with sins? As in he used the veil to hide his sins that he was afraid of others seeing him?
ReplyDeleteKylie- I agree with what you said about the black veil symbolized the ministers sins. I also think that it goes beyond that though, and represents everyones sins. On the very last page, it says "I look around me, and, lo! on every visage a Black Veil". I think that means that the minister recognized his sins and tried to receive forgiveness for what he had done by wearing the veil, and by the quote above I think it was saying that everyone commits sin, but he was the only one who actually recognized it.
ReplyDeleteHi. So I have a question about the ending of this story. On page 5, paragraph 5, there is a sentence that states, "There was the nurse, no hired handmaiden of death, but one whose calm affection had endured thus long in secrecy, in solitude, amid the chill of age, and would not perish, even at the dying hour. Who, but Elizabeth!"
ReplyDeleteSo, what exactly does this mean? I interpreted it as the Minister having an affair with a nurse, but I have a feeling I am wrong.
@Kylie
ReplyDeleteI do believe that the situation of the veil's influence ties back to the Uncanny. Due to the shade of the veil, I was thinking, when I read, that the minister uses it in order to hide himself in shame. As we said before, perhaps he had committed some un-speakable deed, but I also think that, because of his rank in society, he is unable to expose himself to shame.
@DavidE: i think that it is familiar and unfamiliar because it is a normal garment for a woman to wear to a funeral or other sad occasions but is odd for a man to wear.
ReplyDeleteAliisa-In the way you worded this it made me think that maybe he was using the veil as covering up his imperfections. I think that this could be applied to today as well. When it comes to school and grades and stuff, I think people do try and cover up the things that they are afraid others will judge them on. Therefore the minister did not want to show his eyes because he didn't want to lose the respect others had for him as a minister.
ReplyDeleteTaylor - It says on the bottom of page three that they were set to be wed, and so she was his nurse because she was the only one of society who hadn't cast him away completely, so she became his caretaker.
ReplyDeleteDavid-
ReplyDeleteI associated the veil with the drapery in the House of Usher. I felt like the veil masked the beholder just like the drapery of the windows in the house hid the owner.
@David
ReplyDeleteWell the veil was familiar because like it said on the middle of page 2, the veil is a simple thing that a woman might wear on her bonnet, but it becomes unfamiliar when the minister puts on the veil because he is a powerful figure and its so different from the way that people see him. Like Connor said its the fear of the unknown that is unfamiliar
Taylor - The nurse doesn't have anything specifically to do with the minister. That paragraph begins talking about the other people in the tomb. When the author describes the nurse he gives her character by saying that her calm affection stayed even after she had died. Perhaps it's a way of saying that as the minister's death comes, his veil and what it means will stay with him, too.
ReplyDeleteAlexa-I honestly didn't think much about that quote on teh back of the page. It does have a large importance, I think that maybe if everyone was okay with their wrongs, they wouldn't need this veil and the minister may have been okay with excepting his wrongs without having to hide them. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteTaylor- I think that it means that Elizabeth was the only person who understood what the pastor was trying to do. When everyone else shuns him, Elizabeth loved him for who he was, which is exactly what he wanted.
ReplyDelete@Taylor:
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting and I did not think of that when I was reading. You raise a good point that perhaps one might be able to connect that symbols that inter-mingle with different Gothism pieces of literature.
I have a question...one question that Mrs. Lee told us to annotate about is when does something become its opposite. So I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on that?
ReplyDeleteClass- I also had another thought. On page , paragraph 1, it described the minister's sermon as, "he strove to win his people heavenward by mild, persuasive influences, rather than to drive them thither by the thunders of the Word." I feel like this description portrays the veil's effect on him because he is reserved when he wears it, but if he took it off, his sermons might reach more people. Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteKylie, I think the author may have had this theme in mind. That in this Puritan society, anything different is evil, and he tried to cover up imperfections to avoid judgment? Such thing happens today and Romanticism tries to go against this. Therefore he is the eccentric oddity, that baffles everyone.
ReplyDelete@Kylie
ReplyDeleteYes that makes sense. I agree. I think the community should have been more accepting of the minister instead of shunning him, which would have led to acceptance of wrongs and sins
Class- The beginning of the story pronounces this a parable, meaning that there is a lesson to be learned from this. What do you think the moral is?
ReplyDeleteClass - on page five, second paragraph in the middle, it says "In truth, his own antipathy to the veil was known to be so great, that he never willingly passed before a mirror, nor stooped to drink at a still fountain, lest, in its peaceful bosom, he should be affrighted by himself." With all this talk about what the veil symbolizes, do you think he felt shame or fear? How does it tie into the community's reaction?
ReplyDeleteDid the minister want them to take the veil off? When they tried to take it off, he cried "Never!... On Earth, never!". I thought he just wanted his face covered on earth, but the veil lifted symbolically when he went to heaven.
ReplyDeleteAlexa-when they were refering to the opposite I think it had to go witht the idea that yes the people were very afraid of the veil, they still all sort of wanted to find the reasoning of it. Sort of like what Connor was saying in the center that this text reflected on the idea of using the example: You hear something in the basement, it somewhat creeps you out, yet you still go downstairs to find out what it might have been.
ReplyDelete@Alexa:
ReplyDeleteI think the veil becomes its own opposite. originally the veil is used to make someone (typically a woman) to be less conspicuous and fit in with the scenery so to speak. And when the minister wears it, he becomes the vocal point of all the conversations in the town.
Class - do you think that the minister deliberately covered his face? I came out with the impression that the covering wasn't his doing.
ReplyDeleteAlexa-I think that something becomes its opposite when the two become contradictory ideas. Hawthorne uses opposites frequently throughout the text to go along with the uncanny. For example, a minister with a black veil.
ReplyDeleteAliisa-
ReplyDeleteI think the lesson to learn from this story is, people should not cover their secrets or emotions with a veil. Even if you constantly hide from others, then you will eventually be left out, and you will lead a lonely life.
Emily, I noticed this as well, it almost seemed as though it was a pact with the devil?
ReplyDelete