To go along with the inner circle, if it is a fake name for the author to remane announamus why would the author not want to take credit for their work?
Hey guys! Does anyone have any thoughts to as why the author tried to include a doppleganger? Like do you think their is a significance or is he trying to make a certain effectiveness?
So, on the topic at hand in the discussion, I'd just like to put this out there from Wikipedia... "The name itself is an interesting choice: "son" of "will". In other words, William Wilson has willed himself into being along with the double which shares that name."
I thought this was pretty interesting about the name. What are some other theories/ideas?
Kyler: Edgar Allen Poe wrote this. It is something of an autobiography, I think, when you look at the parallels between Poe's life in England and the descriptions in the story, but I'm not sure what it would have to do with not wanting to take credit for the story.
Britt- I think the author included the doppelganger to show a basic battle between good and evil for a balance in life. I think the author is trying to show the need for balance in the world.
Kyler - He wants to remain anonymous because he's done all these terrible things. He says he's descended into debaucheries worse than Elah-Gabalus (who was an awful Roman Emperor), so he'd rather not reveal his true identity.
Kyler- I think that the name is so generic, almost to suggest an irony because it is to resemble himself also? I think this story is almost autobiographical, to an extent of coarse.
Alright Kyler, good point. To go along with the comment Nate made in the circle about killing his own self-conscious..I really agree with that. From what I was interrupting, I thought that all the coincidences between the two Wilson's I thought that the doppleganger was more of a conscious aspect and not a physical person. Any thoughts?
Britt- I think that the author included the doppleganger to show a man versus self conflict. The author wants us to consider our own guilty consciousness.
Fellow bloggers- On page 2, paragraph 3, the last sentence, it says, "... we joyfully took our way home for the Christmas or Midsummer holy-days". I am wondering, is the hyphen used for syntax purposes or does the author mean to say holy days? Is this like a holiday in a sense? Just an observation.
Melanie - I agree with what Connor's saying on the inner circle, which is that the second William Wilson is not real, but rather a figment of his imagination that is representative of his conscience.
So Lauren are you saying the author was trying to reveal a specific theme. That in any society conflict with yourself personally can make things more dramatic?
Melanie- Relating to Kyler's discovery on doppelgangers being a mental disability, I think he personally sees the doppleganger as a real person, but in reality he's just psycho and it isn't real.
Melanie- I think that the doppleganger was simply a figment of the original William Wilson's imagination. I believe that the imaginary William Wilson was created in the original William Wilson's mind as a result of his alter ego which emerged from his troubled childhood.
Tying this story into a theory, I think the author is trying to suggest that humans cannot ever be complete with themselves. Lacan describes this as fragmentation of self.
Emily: I do wonder of that, but he talks about how other people reacted to him (the doppelgänger) in school and such. Also, William Wilson went to his dorm... what was that, then? Is the story just a mix of what "happened" and what didn't, or is there ever a clear line?
Taylor W: Considering the time this was written, I think holy-days and holidays are synonymous. The holidays are typically days of religion anyway.
Britt- Yes, because how can you see clearly what is going on outside of you when you aren't even sure about what is going on inside of you? Instability within self causes disruptions in the real world.
I like what you guys are getting at. But going towards what Austin is saying, I really disagree with that. There was a complete different balance between the two. The morals of the main character Wilson was better but than towards the end he started to rebel against his morals. So why would he want to be like him if the doppleganger was only changing him for the worse.
Emily- I think he is telling the story to show others need for balance within yourself. I think he is trying to show how guilt can affect a person so drasticlly. I think it is a warning to others.
britt- maybe its the side of him being free, like thats the person inside of him wanting to be free, but the real person knows he can never be that person
Emily- I think the author was telling the story as either a way to talk about his feelings (as a healing process), or he told the story with the intention of making himself angry, causing his Id to show up, further propelling him into a psychotic mindset, or even a nightmare.
Melanie - On the third page, in the third paragraph, it says, "Yet this superiority - even this equality - was in truth acknowledged by no one but myself; our associates, by some unaccountable blindness, seemed not even to suspect it." I got the feeling that the other schoolmates didn't realize that the second one existed. I also think that the trip to the dorm was sort of a symbolic hallucination.
Kyler: I think that there was a real person, but not the person that William Wilson described. Does that make sense? Sometimes we see people and when we don't like them for whatever reason, we exaggerate those reasons and before you know it that person is completely different to you than everyone else. That's kind of how I took it.
Class: I was wondering if anyone thought about the fact that William Wilson drank so much alcohol. Could that have something to do with his perceptions of the doppelgänger? He said he was drunk on the last page where he got into his fight.
Melanie- Of course the doppleganger emerged from his drunken state! Great connection! When you drink, alcohol impairs your ability to think straight, and I think it heightened his paranoia of William Wilson. I noticed that William Wilson entered the picture every time the original William Wilson reached a high point in his life. For example, William Wilson interrupted the card game the original William Wilson was winning a lot at.
Austin- I don't think i understand what you mean. To me, I don't know what you think, but to me they are of one. I feel as if Wilson's doppleganger is more of a dillusion rather than a separate person. So when you say he wanted to be more like his doppleganger in order to be free. But in my opinion, if he was less than that of the doppleganger he would be a much happier person. Just like stated in the text, "Yet, at this distant day, let me do him the simple justice to acknowledge that i can recall no occasion when the suggestions of my rival were on the side of those errors or follies so usual to his immature age and seeming inexperience; that his moral sense, at least, if not his general talents and worldly wisdom, was far keener than my own; and that i might, to-day, have been a BETTER, and thus a HAPPIER man, had I less frequently rejected the counsels embodied in those meaning whispers which I then but too cordially hated and too bitterly despised." (pg.4)
Emily- He could have started drinking at a very young age, but we will never know. But if indeed he was sober, then I think he invented William Wilson in his mind, almost like an imaginary friend.
Melanie I don't think his drunkness had an effect because he spoke of how when his doppleganger entered he went immediatly sober. ""i grew perfectly sober in an instant." (pg. 6)
To go along with the inner circle, if it is a fake name for the author to remane announamus why would the author not want to take credit for their work?
ReplyDeleteHey guys! Does anyone have any thoughts to as why the author tried to include a doppleganger? Like do you think their is a significance or is he trying to make a certain effectiveness?
ReplyDeleteSo, on the topic at hand in the discussion, I'd just like to put this out there from Wikipedia... "The name itself is an interesting choice: "son" of "will". In other words, William Wilson has willed himself into being along with the double which shares that name."
ReplyDeleteI thought this was pretty interesting about the name. What are some other theories/ideas?
Kyler- he wants to remain anonymous because he is a murderer
ReplyDeleteKyler: Edgar Allen Poe wrote this. It is something of an autobiography, I think, when you look at the parallels between Poe's life in England and the descriptions in the story, but I'm not sure what it would have to do with not wanting to take credit for the story.
ReplyDeleteMelanie- That is a very interesting discovery. I interpreted his name as being very common, as to blend in with society.
ReplyDeleteBritt- I think the author included the doppelganger to show a basic battle between good and evil for a balance in life. I think the author is trying to show the need for balance in the world.
ReplyDeleteKyler - He wants to remain anonymous because he's done all these terrible things. He says he's descended into debaucheries worse than Elah-Gabalus (who was an awful Roman Emperor), so he'd rather not reveal his true identity.
ReplyDeleteKyler- I think that the name is so generic, almost to suggest an irony because it is to resemble himself also? I think this story is almost autobiographical, to an extent of coarse.
ReplyDeleteBritney, I think the doppleganger was used to add mystery to the story and trigger questions such as if the second William Wilson was actually real.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAlright Kyler, good point. To go along with the comment Nate made in the circle about killing his own self-conscious..I really agree with that. From what I was interrupting, I thought that all the coincidences between the two Wilson's I thought that the doppleganger was more of a conscious aspect and not a physical person. Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteTaylor (and everyone): Was the doppelgänger actually real?
ReplyDeleteBritt-
ReplyDeleteI think that the author included the doppleganger to show a man versus self conflict. The author wants us to consider our own guilty consciousness.
Fellow bloggers- On page 2, paragraph 3, the last sentence, it says, "... we joyfully took our way home for the Christmas or Midsummer holy-days". I am wondering, is the hyphen used for syntax purposes or does the author mean to say holy days? Is this like a holiday in a sense? Just an observation.
ReplyDeleteMelanie - I agree with what Connor's saying on the inner circle, which is that the second William Wilson is not real, but rather a figment of his imagination that is representative of his conscience.
ReplyDeleteSo Lauren are you saying the author was trying to reveal a specific theme. That in any society conflict with yourself personally can make things more dramatic?
ReplyDeleteTaylor - I think that "holy-days" is just an old way of saying holidays. I don't think it holds any real significance.
ReplyDeleteMelaniea- No i think it was a fabracation of his imagination to try and create a balance within himself.
ReplyDeleteMelanie- Relating to Kyler's discovery on doppelgangers being a mental disability, I think he personally sees the doppleganger as a real person, but in reality he's just psycho and it isn't real.
ReplyDeleteor maybe its him creating the person who he wants to be
ReplyDeleteMelanie: I believe that the second William Wilson is not real and represents himself and his alterego.
ReplyDeleteMelanie- I think that the doppleganger was simply a figment of the original William Wilson's imagination. I believe that the imaginary William Wilson was created in the original William Wilson's mind as a result of his alter ego which emerged from his troubled childhood.
ReplyDeleteTying this story into a theory, I think the author is trying to suggest that humans cannot ever be complete with themselves. Lacan describes this as fragmentation of self.
ReplyDeleteClass - Why do you think the narrator is telling the story?
ReplyDeleteEmily: I do wonder of that, but he talks about how other people reacted to him (the doppelgänger) in school and such. Also, William Wilson went to his dorm... what was that, then? Is the story just a mix of what "happened" and what didn't, or is there ever a clear line?
ReplyDeleteTaylor W: Considering the time this was written, I think holy-days and holidays are synonymous. The holidays are typically days of religion anyway.
Britt-
ReplyDeleteYes, because how can you see clearly what is going on outside of you when you aren't even sure about what is going on inside of you? Instability within self causes disruptions in the real world.
melanie- Do you think that the second william willson is real?
ReplyDeleteI like what you guys are getting at. But going towards what Austin is saying, I really disagree with that. There was a complete different balance between the two. The morals of the main character Wilson was better but than towards the end he started to rebel against his morals. So why would he want to be like him if the doppleganger was only changing him for the worse.
ReplyDeleteEmily- I think he is telling the story to show others need for balance within yourself. I think he is trying to show how guilt can affect a person so drasticlly. I think it is a warning to others.
ReplyDeletebritt- maybe its the side of him being free, like thats the person inside of him wanting to be free, but the real person knows he can never be that person
ReplyDeleteEmily- I think the author was telling the story as either a way to talk about his feelings (as a healing process), or he told the story with the intention of making himself angry, causing his Id to show up, further propelling him into a psychotic mindset, or even a nightmare.
ReplyDeleteMelanie - On the third page, in the third paragraph, it says, "Yet this superiority - even this equality - was in truth acknowledged by no one but myself; our associates, by some unaccountable blindness, seemed not even to suspect it." I got the feeling that the other schoolmates didn't realize that the second one existed. I also think that the trip to the dorm was sort of a symbolic hallucination.
ReplyDeleteKyler: I think that there was a real person, but not the person that William Wilson described. Does that make sense? Sometimes we see people and when we don't like them for whatever reason, we exaggerate those reasons and before you know it that person is completely different to you than everyone else. That's kind of how I took it.
ReplyDeleteClass: I was wondering if anyone thought about the fact that William Wilson drank so much alcohol. Could that have something to do with his perceptions of the doppelgänger? He said he was drunk on the last page where he got into his fight.
britt- what if he is writing the story as the doppleganger, and the doppleganger is doing wrong and wishes to be real.
ReplyDeleteMelanie- Of course the doppleganger emerged from his drunken state! Great connection! When you drink, alcohol impairs your ability to think straight, and I think it heightened his paranoia of William Wilson. I noticed that William Wilson entered the picture every time the original William Wilson reached a high point in his life. For example, William Wilson interrupted the card game the original William Wilson was winning a lot at.
ReplyDeleteTaylor - In response to your most recent response:
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think caused the double to appear when he was at the school? He wasn't an adult, so I don't think he was drinking.
Austin- I don't think i understand what you mean. To me, I don't know what you think, but to me they are of one. I feel as if Wilson's doppleganger is more of a dillusion rather than a separate person. So when you say he wanted to be more like his doppleganger in order to be free. But in my opinion, if he was less than that of the doppleganger he would be a much happier person. Just like stated in the text, "Yet, at this distant day, let me do him the simple justice to acknowledge that i can recall no occasion when the suggestions of my rival were on the side of those errors or follies so usual to his immature age and seeming inexperience; that his moral sense, at least, if not his general talents and worldly wisdom, was far keener than my own; and that i might, to-day, have been a BETTER, and thus a HAPPIER man, had I less frequently rejected the counsels embodied in those meaning whispers which I then but too cordially hated and too bitterly despised." (pg.4)
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else have thoughts on what I just posted?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteEmily- He could have started drinking at a very young age, but we will never know. But if indeed he was sober, then I think he invented William Wilson in his mind, almost like an imaginary friend.
ReplyDeleteEmily: Wasn't he talking about college when he said he was at school, mostly? Dorms, Oxford... there he would be an adult.
ReplyDeleteMelanie I don't think his drunkness had an effect because he spoke of how when his doppleganger entered he went immediatly sober. ""i grew perfectly sober in an instant." (pg. 6)
ReplyDelete