Hey Guys! Do you think that the grandma was trying to get closer to the Misfit in the end to leave a good last impression? Or is she just trying to try to convince him that he is a good man so that he won't kill them?
Another question, why do you think the author chose to include the irony that the grandmother didn't want to go on the vacation because of the Misfit, yet she led the family to the Misfit? I found it interesting considering we never talked about irony in Gothic literature.
Mel- To me I believe a good man is someone who has good morals that remember and feels bad for what they say and do. So for the grandma to call the Misfit a good man..Is very incorrect. She is only doing this for distraction, and she also uses the word "good man" frequently.
@melanie: I think that in the text the idea of a "good man" was very distorted, because first off all she used those words to describe Red Sam, and then also the Misfit which really isn't a good man at all. So after using it those different times in different contexts, it doesn't seem to have a meaning anymore.
Melanie - I think that one of the points of the text is that the meaning is arbitrary and sort of subjective. I think when the grandmother uses it, she's trying to convince herself or the people she's talking to. When she's talking to Red Sam, I think she's saying that as though he should be glad for her praise. When she's talking to the Misfit, I think she's trying to persuade him away from murdering her by telling him that he's too good to possibly do that.
Britt- I think the Grandma tried to convince him that he was a good man so he wouldn't kill them. When someone is put in that position, it is better to reason with them and try to calm them down instead of arguing with them and making them more agitated.
Aaron- the irony behind the whole situation with the grandma is added for effectiveness. I think the author wanted us to interpret it in different ways and question and make predictions towards the Gothic irony revealed.
I feel like the quote she would have been a good women had their been someone to shoot her every minute of her life, meant that if the women always had the threat of the loss of her life on her mind she would have been a good person.
The grandmother was just being nice to the misfit so that he wouldn't kill all of them. The grandmother didn't want to get close to the misfit, she wanted to avoid him at all costs.
Brit: I think that she was attempting to to save herself by cajoling (oh, vocab!) the Misfit. The way she phrased her words and the way the author described their dialogue seemed very pleading, and I think she would only plead for her life.
Aaron: Love that observation. The use of irony in any text is always interesting once it clicks... It kind of completes the circle of the story. The grandmother's resistance unfortunately led to her downfall, which makes you wonder if maybe it hadn't been an issue in the first place it wouldn't have turned out that way. If that even makes sense...
@Taylor I think this is because when she was young she had to respect her elders and they were in power and now that she is old she feels she should be treated the same.
Aaron- I agree that the irony is really interesting. I saw it as a bunch of different contradictions, because the Grandmother wanted to look like a Christian, but not act like one, and then she reached out to a criminal after she realized she was like him in a way.
@Melanie: That made me think of classic archetypes. The grandmother may have been like the hero of the story and made herself fail due to her flaw, which was her lack of memory and persistent annoying behavior towards the Misfit.
Going off of what Lauren said about how he looked familiar but she did not know who he was, I interpreted it as she recognized the troubled person that was similar in a way because they are not good people, but in some ways they were just looking for forgiveness.
Taylor - I think it showed the lack of connection between the grandmother and her daughter in law. When the family is being dragged out to the woods and shot, she calls out for Bailey, but not for the mother. Additionally, in the morning, she had described the mother's face as looking like a "cabbage", so I think it just shows how little the grandmother cares for her.
Tay tay- I realized that too. I think the author was trying to keep the Gothic theme going by keeping you questioning. Not mentioning her name was a small occurence but I kept going back to thinking about that. Maybe the author didn't add the name because the focus is supposed to be on the relationship of the grandma and the Misfit. But, it also seemed a little gloomy.
Class- After the family was involved in a car accident, June Star said, "But nobody's killed". She said this with disappointment. Why do you think she was disappointed that none of her family members died? Who do you think she would have wanted to die the most?
Brandon- I felt that that quote showed that in some way the Misfit was almost regretting what he had done in life. I thought that he could almost see the similarities between himself and the old lady, and he would have liked to have someone shoot him sometime in his life when he was still good.
Taylor: I was wondering that too! I found that it made the story rather confusing at some times. It seems random to make the mother anonymous when the mother was more of a background character than anything. This may be way off, but because it was so focused on the grandmother, it could have been a way of showing the mother's insignificance to the grandmother whereas her son (Bailey) and the children were all talked about more.
Aaron: I was thinking the same thing (back to enriched lit eh?)... going off of that, to everyone: what do you think was the reason for the Misfit finally killing the grandmother? Was it something she said/didn't say or was it inevitable?
@katie I agree there were a lot of contradictions in the story and lots of instances of irony. I agree, that the grandmother wanted to act like a lady and be perceived by society as a lady, yet she lies about the trap door and is hypocritical, and really isn't a lady at all. I think it goes along with morality. The grandmother doesn't have very good morals, yet the Misfit has moral convictions and recognizes that he is not the worst person in the world but he is also not the best. I think this goes along with the quote on the last page "She would have been a good woman if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life". At the end, the grandmother finally becomes good and realizes her faults in essence, and only in her last moments did she recognize that.
Brandon- I think the author included this line because it shows how this story can have characteristics of being a bildungsroman (not sure if you know what that is), but it is sort of "a common of age." In a way the author made it seem likke the Misfit came of age after talking to the grandma, and now he realizes the pain and suffering and trouble he causes because of the way he lives his life.
Taylor I think that June Star had an intuiton the whole time and that is why her character seemed so distant the whole time. Maybe she was disappointed because she knew they were going to enconture the Misfit..And she would rather die fast than painfully in the ways the Misfit's gang tortured them
Taylor: Personally I didn't interpret that as her wanting someone to die, but simply the child longing for something "exciting". This just shows how ungrateful/spoiled those kids really are when they think they'd choose a cheap thrill such as a fatal car accident over being safe.
Taylor: For the little girl it would have been exciting if something big happened. I don't think she actually wants anyone to die she just wants something to entertain her.
I agree with Melanie. If you look at the behavior of the kids throughout the story, they just were constantly bored and wanted something to happen. After all, with the help of their grandmother, they were the reason they ended up in this predicament.
I agree Laura. Given the circumstances she was looking out for her own safety. Any person would want to avoid someone that one might think could kill them.
Alexa- I agree with what you are saying about both of those characters. It is almost like the quote that things are not what they appear which tends to be a common reappearance in Gothic text. Although I am not sure if the grandmother really redeemed herself or if she was just being selfish as usual.
I agree with Melanie. The significance of the characters shaped pretty much the whole story. Like what Mrs. Lee said, a main idea in the story is the generation gap. It alters the mindset of a character when they are different in age groups.
@Taylor I'm not sure why but on the first page she shows a lot of sass towards her and it just seems like the grandma agitates June, maybe because the grandma tries to discipline them.
@Katie Well at first she is very selfish, not once does she plead for her son or her grandchildren to be spared. But at the very end she says "Why you're one of my babies" and I thought that showed she had let go of her selfishness and realized that the Misfit and herself had a lot in common.
I agree with Melanie because I think the children were just bored in the care and were longing for some excitement because they had just been so bored. The children also don't think before they speak. They just blurt out what comes to mind immediately.
Alexa- Even though she said that about him, he was also wearing her sons shirt at the time so she might have been confused or just usd it for charity reasons.
What do you think defines "good man"? How is it defined in the text?
ReplyDeleteHey Guys! Do you think that the grandma was trying to get closer to the Misfit in the end to leave a good last impression? Or is she just trying to try to convince him that he is a good man so that he won't kill them?
ReplyDeleteAnother question, why do you think the author chose to include the irony that the grandmother didn't want to go on the vacation because of the Misfit, yet she led the family to the Misfit? I found it interesting considering we never talked about irony in Gothic literature.
ReplyDeleteMel- To me I believe a good man is someone who has good morals that remember and feels bad for what they say and do.
ReplyDeleteSo for the grandma to call the Misfit a good man..Is very incorrect. She is only doing this for distraction, and she also uses the word "good man" frequently.
I agree with Lauren that the grandma was a very controlling person and tried to always force her will onto others whether by threats or lying.
ReplyDelete@melanie:
ReplyDeleteI think that in the text the idea of a "good man" was very distorted, because first off all she used those words to describe Red Sam, and then also the Misfit which really isn't a good man at all. So after using it those different times in different contexts, it doesn't seem to have a meaning anymore.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMelanie - I think that one of the points of the text is that the meaning is arbitrary and sort of subjective. I think when the grandmother uses it, she's trying to convince herself or the people she's talking to. When she's talking to Red Sam, I think she's saying that as though he should be glad for her praise. When she's talking to the Misfit, I think she's trying to persuade him away from murdering her by telling him that he's too good to possibly do that.
ReplyDeleteBritt- I think the Grandma tried to convince him that he was a good man so he wouldn't kill them. When someone is put in that position, it is better to reason with them and try to calm them down instead of arguing with them and making them more agitated.
ReplyDelete@Brandon
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the grandma is like that?
Aaron- the irony behind the whole situation with the grandma is added for effectiveness. I think the author wanted us to interpret it in different ways and question and make predictions towards the Gothic irony revealed.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the quote she would have been a good women had their been someone to shoot her every minute of her life, meant that if the women always had the threat of the loss of her life on her mind she would have been a good person.
ReplyDeleteThe grandmother was just being nice to the misfit so that he wouldn't kill all of them. The grandmother didn't want to get close to the misfit, she wanted to avoid him at all costs.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily. I think the "goodman" was a distraction or some form of endearment to keep him from killing her. She was distracting him.
ReplyDeleteBrit: I think that she was attempting to to save herself by cajoling (oh, vocab!) the Misfit. The way she phrased her words and the way the author described their dialogue seemed very pleading, and I think she would only plead for her life.
ReplyDeleteAaron: Love that observation. The use of irony in any text is always interesting once it clicks... It kind of completes the circle of the story. The grandmother's resistance unfortunately led to her downfall, which makes you wonder if maybe it hadn't been an issue in the first place it wouldn't have turned out that way. If that even makes sense...
@Taylor
ReplyDeleteI think this is because when she was young she had to respect her elders and they were in power and now that she is old she feels she should be treated the same.
Class- Why do you think the author chose to have the "children's mother" remain nameless?
ReplyDeleteAaron- I agree that the irony is really interesting. I saw it as a bunch of different contradictions, because the Grandmother wanted to look like a Christian, but not act like one, and then she reached out to a criminal after she realized she was like him in a way.
ReplyDelete@Melanie: That made me think of classic archetypes. The grandmother may have been like the hero of the story and made herself fail due to her flaw, which was her lack of memory and persistent annoying behavior towards the Misfit.
ReplyDeleteGoing off of what Lauren said about how he looked familiar but she did not know who he was, I interpreted it as she recognized the troubled person that was similar in a way because they are not good people, but in some ways they were just looking for forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteTaylor - I think it showed the lack of connection between the grandmother and her daughter in law. When the family is being dragged out to the woods and shot, she calls out for Bailey, but not for the mother. Additionally, in the morning, she had described the mother's face as looking like a "cabbage", so I think it just shows how little the grandmother cares for her.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think the Misfit means by, "It's no real pleasure in life," at the end of the story?
ReplyDeleteTay tay-
ReplyDeleteI realized that too. I think the author was trying to keep the Gothic theme going by keeping you questioning. Not mentioning her name was a small occurence but I kept going back to thinking about that.
Maybe the author didn't add the name because the focus is supposed to be on the relationship of the grandma and the Misfit.
But, it also seemed a little gloomy.
@Taylor- It's one of the techniques of Gothic literature. Either it's not important or it adds mystery.
ReplyDeleteClass- After the family was involved in a car accident, June Star said, "But nobody's killed". She said this with disappointment. Why do you think she was disappointed that none of her family members died? Who do you think she would have wanted to die the most?
ReplyDeleteBrandon- I felt that that quote showed that in some way the Misfit was almost regretting what he had done in life. I thought that he could almost see the similarities between himself and the old lady, and he would have liked to have someone shoot him sometime in his life when he was still good.
ReplyDeleteTaylor: I was wondering that too! I found that it made the story rather confusing at some times. It seems random to make the mother anonymous when the mother was more of a background character than anything. This may be way off, but because it was so focused on the grandmother, it could have been a way of showing the mother's insignificance to the grandmother whereas her son (Bailey) and the children were all talked about more.
ReplyDeleteAaron: I was thinking the same thing (back to enriched lit eh?)... going off of that, to everyone: what do you think was the reason for the Misfit finally killing the grandmother? Was it something she said/didn't say or was it inevitable?
@katie
ReplyDeleteI agree there were a lot of contradictions in the story and lots of instances of irony. I agree, that the grandmother wanted to act like a lady and be perceived by society as a lady, yet she lies about the trap door and is hypocritical, and really isn't a lady at all. I think it goes along with morality. The grandmother doesn't have very good morals, yet the Misfit has moral convictions and recognizes that he is not the worst person in the world but he is also not the best. I think this goes along with the quote on the last page "She would have been a good woman if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life". At the end, the grandmother finally becomes good and realizes her faults in essence, and only in her last moments did she recognize that.
Brandon-
ReplyDeleteI think the author included this line because it shows how this story can have characteristics of being a bildungsroman (not sure if you know what that is), but it is sort of "a common of age."
In a way the author made it seem likke the Misfit came of age after talking to the grandma, and now he realizes the pain and suffering and trouble he causes because of the way he lives his life.
@Taylor
ReplyDeleteI think she wanted the grandmother to die because it says "with a disappointment as the grandmother limped out of the car..."
Taylor I think that June Star had an intuiton the whole time and that is why her character seemed so distant the whole time. Maybe she was disappointed because she knew they were going to enconture the Misfit..And she would rather die fast than painfully in the ways the Misfit's gang tortured them
ReplyDeleteTaylor: Personally I didn't interpret that as her wanting someone to die, but simply the child longing for something "exciting". This just shows how ungrateful/spoiled those kids really are when they think they'd choose a cheap thrill such as a fatal car accident over being safe.
ReplyDeleteBrandon- Why do you think June Star despises her grandmother so much when the grandmother continually shows admiration for her grandchildren?
ReplyDeleteTaylor:
ReplyDeleteFor the little girl it would have been exciting if something big happened. I don't think she actually wants anyone to die she just wants something to entertain her.
I agree with Melanie. If you look at the behavior of the kids throughout the story, they just were constantly bored and wanted something to happen. After all, with the help of their grandmother, they were the reason they ended up in this predicament.
ReplyDeleteI agree Laura. Given the circumstances she was looking out for her own safety. Any person would want to avoid someone that one might think could kill them.
ReplyDeleteAlexa- I agree with what you are saying about both of those characters. It is almost like the quote that things are not what they appear which tends to be a common reappearance in Gothic text. Although I am not sure if the grandmother really redeemed herself or if she was just being selfish as usual.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Melanie. The significance of the characters shaped pretty much the whole story. Like what Mrs. Lee said, a main idea in the story is the generation gap. It alters the mindset of a character when they are different in age groups.
ReplyDelete@Taylor
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure why but on the first page she shows a lot of sass towards her and it just seems like the grandma agitates June, maybe because the grandma tries to discipline them.
@Katie
ReplyDeleteWell at first she is very selfish, not once does she plead for her son or her grandchildren to be spared. But at the very end she says "Why you're one of my babies" and I thought that showed she had let go of her selfishness and realized that the Misfit and herself had a lot in common.
What do you guys think are some examples of Gothicism in this story?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Melanie because I think the children were just bored in the care and were longing for some excitement because they had just been so bored. The children also don't think before they speak. They just blurt out what comes to mind immediately.
ReplyDeleteAlexa- Even though she said that about him, he was also wearing her sons shirt at the time so she might have been confused or just usd it for charity reasons.
ReplyDelete